A rebellious approach to online dating has caught fire with women who are sick of most men on dating apps. But will it really help you find your Mr Right? As a dating expert, I'm not so sure.
Couldn't agree more. I've been in her Facebook group for a while out of curiosity and have very much noticed the same things.
I can sort of see how the first two points (B2B and rhetorical analysis) ~could~ be useful for the right person. If you're someone who is too accommodating / forgiving, it might genuinely be helpful to weed people out a bit quicker and you do see a little bit of that in the group.
For example, there was a man who asked the woman to stop seeing other people before they're even met and she was like, "am I overreacting by finding this weird?" No, you are under reacting and should definitely not meet up with this person and block them.
But the majority of cases are pretty marginal - someone uses what Jennie et al have decided is the wrong word, for example, and suddenly everyone in the comments is catastrophizing and extrapolating in some very odd ways.
As for the third point - the bitchy profile - this is where she completely lost me. So we're just being hypocritical. We're doing the things that would instantly get a man blocked but because a woman does it, it's an act of feminist empowerment. I don't think men and women are exactly the same in dating - for example, women are much more physically vulnerable and men should pay more attention to making sure she feels safe. But that doesn't excuse this kind of behavior.
I have seen profiles like this—instant left swipe for me. (Although they often have something in there about “no liars” as though anyone is looking for an unhonest partner.) I do empathize with woman who have dozens if not hundreds of matches to go through, but this method seems like a foolproof way to weed out thoughtful guys that read a woman’s profile and still get inundated by the dudes who swipe right on anyone remotely attractive.
I was intrigued by the burned haystack lady and followed the FB page for about a week and a half. I soon concluded that being angry, nitpicky and self-congratulatory all at the same time was a) unlikely to be a successful method of securing Mr. Right and b) was super depressing. Thank you for this excellent analysis!
Excellent piece! Totally agree that it does no good to be overly negative about the opposite sex. And I very much appreciate your call for empathy for men. If women could see how few matches even very good looking men get on the apps, they would be astonished.
Thanks so much, J. Yes, it’s easy for women to point fingers and blame men for disappointing behaviour. But it really is worth taking a moment to consider what your own flaws might be as a romantic prospect and what men might find frustrating about women when it comes to dating. Both sides could stand to bring more empathy to the table.
The trouble, it seems, is that adversarial approaches (such as Jennie’s, or FDS, or PUA) often work in the short term because they jolt people out of a very common dating failure mode - passivity. Giving someone a structure of what to do when they’re fed up with the process can get people to some immediate wins.
But I think that in the long term, any approach that rests on vanquishing the opposite sex, or somehow using some trickery to get around their bad habits, is going to fail.
I met my wife IRL, but had a similar early hesitance. And there were definitely aspects of our relationship early on that she would have been justified in “burning” me. I’ve very happy she didn’t! The only way out is through, and the only way through is with empathy.
I was surprised by the number of women on Hinge who used their dating profile to ASK if any other women noticed how poor the men were. The rest of the profile looked serious. Why would you ask for female approval on a post that will only be seen by the men you are ranting against?
On a positive note, I massively agree with Elly that your profile should contain things that are uniquely interesting about you. From the masculine perspective:
- it helps garner attention from men who are interested in you specifically
- profiles which are “hi, I’m a generic female” don’t help a man create an interesting opener
Put stuff on your profile that you genuinely want to talk about.
Thank you for posting about this. I’m baffled women would think it’s a good strategy (realizing it’s mostly women in a younger demographic than me). The dating scene is already challenging enough.
Might no.1 and no. 2 be good ideas for people living in large cities? I can see how they could be counterproductive in a small town or city where there are only so many people, but in a large metro quickly eliminating the 80% of people least likely to be compatible with very little effort to focus on more promising prospects seems like a good idea.
No and no. (Sorry.) Just because you live in a large city doesn’t mean you should filter out men left, right and centre to get to the ‘good’ ones - because if you’re doing it the Burned Haystack Dating Method way, you’ll be filtering out a lot of potential Mr Rights along with all the Mr Wrongs, which gives you fewer chances of finding love. And if you live in a small town, you shouldn’t go out with men you’re not that interested in just because there are fewer men. You still need to be genuinely happy in your relationship or marriage - otherwise, you’re better off being single.
I'd advice both men and women to avoid lists of things you don't want. Put one or two maybe, and state them positively, i.e, if you want someone who shares your faith say "Looking for Christian man/woman." But you can usually get things you don't want just by looking at people's profiles.
You don’t need to say what you don’t want. That comes across as negative. And even some of the things you think you ‘need’ aren’t always accurate. For instance, there are plenty of happy interfaith marriages. You don’t necessarily need a partner who shares your faith. (I’m living proof - and I know others who are too). You need a partner you find attractive, whose company you enjoy and who is a fantastic partner to you - open, honest, loyal, trustworthy, a good communicator and a true team mate.
I first came across this method a while ago, and I swear she's changed her recommended profile since then. The first version definitely did NOT contain a list of "do not wants," had more specific interests, was funnier, and in general was much less angry and more human. I wonder what on earth changed?
Couldn't agree more. I've been in her Facebook group for a while out of curiosity and have very much noticed the same things.
I can sort of see how the first two points (B2B and rhetorical analysis) ~could~ be useful for the right person. If you're someone who is too accommodating / forgiving, it might genuinely be helpful to weed people out a bit quicker and you do see a little bit of that in the group.
For example, there was a man who asked the woman to stop seeing other people before they're even met and she was like, "am I overreacting by finding this weird?" No, you are under reacting and should definitely not meet up with this person and block them.
But the majority of cases are pretty marginal - someone uses what Jennie et al have decided is the wrong word, for example, and suddenly everyone in the comments is catastrophizing and extrapolating in some very odd ways.
As for the third point - the bitchy profile - this is where she completely lost me. So we're just being hypocritical. We're doing the things that would instantly get a man blocked but because a woman does it, it's an act of feminist empowerment. I don't think men and women are exactly the same in dating - for example, women are much more physically vulnerable and men should pay more attention to making sure she feels safe. But that doesn't excuse this kind of behavior.
This is SOOO good - and EXACTLY what I would have written had I knew more about this new method. I'm proud to call you a friend and colleague.
Aww, thank you so much, Evan. That means a lot to me. :-)
I have seen profiles like this—instant left swipe for me. (Although they often have something in there about “no liars” as though anyone is looking for an unhonest partner.) I do empathize with woman who have dozens if not hundreds of matches to go through, but this method seems like a foolproof way to weed out thoughtful guys that read a woman’s profile and still get inundated by the dudes who swipe right on anyone remotely attractive.
I was intrigued by the burned haystack lady and followed the FB page for about a week and a half. I soon concluded that being angry, nitpicky and self-congratulatory all at the same time was a) unlikely to be a successful method of securing Mr. Right and b) was super depressing. Thank you for this excellent analysis!
I’m so glad you found it helpful. ☺️
Excellent piece! Totally agree that it does no good to be overly negative about the opposite sex. And I very much appreciate your call for empathy for men. If women could see how few matches even very good looking men get on the apps, they would be astonished.
Thanks so much, J. Yes, it’s easy for women to point fingers and blame men for disappointing behaviour. But it really is worth taking a moment to consider what your own flaws might be as a romantic prospect and what men might find frustrating about women when it comes to dating. Both sides could stand to bring more empathy to the table.
The trouble, it seems, is that adversarial approaches (such as Jennie’s, or FDS, or PUA) often work in the short term because they jolt people out of a very common dating failure mode - passivity. Giving someone a structure of what to do when they’re fed up with the process can get people to some immediate wins.
But I think that in the long term, any approach that rests on vanquishing the opposite sex, or somehow using some trickery to get around their bad habits, is going to fail.
I met my wife IRL, but had a similar early hesitance. And there were definitely aspects of our relationship early on that she would have been justified in “burning” me. I’ve very happy she didn’t! The only way out is through, and the only way through is with empathy.
Couldn’t agree more. Thanks for your comment.
I was surprised by the number of women on Hinge who used their dating profile to ASK if any other women noticed how poor the men were. The rest of the profile looked serious. Why would you ask for female approval on a post that will only be seen by the men you are ranting against?
On a positive note, I massively agree with Elly that your profile should contain things that are uniquely interesting about you. From the masculine perspective:
- it helps garner attention from men who are interested in you specifically
- profiles which are “hi, I’m a generic female” don’t help a man create an interesting opener
Put stuff on your profile that you genuinely want to talk about.
Thank you for posting about this. I’m baffled women would think it’s a good strategy (realizing it’s mostly women in a younger demographic than me). The dating scene is already challenging enough.
Might no.1 and no. 2 be good ideas for people living in large cities? I can see how they could be counterproductive in a small town or city where there are only so many people, but in a large metro quickly eliminating the 80% of people least likely to be compatible with very little effort to focus on more promising prospects seems like a good idea.
No and no. (Sorry.) Just because you live in a large city doesn’t mean you should filter out men left, right and centre to get to the ‘good’ ones - because if you’re doing it the Burned Haystack Dating Method way, you’ll be filtering out a lot of potential Mr Rights along with all the Mr Wrongs, which gives you fewer chances of finding love. And if you live in a small town, you shouldn’t go out with men you’re not that interested in just because there are fewer men. You still need to be genuinely happy in your relationship or marriage - otherwise, you’re better off being single.
I'd advice both men and women to avoid lists of things you don't want. Put one or two maybe, and state them positively, i.e, if you want someone who shares your faith say "Looking for Christian man/woman." But you can usually get things you don't want just by looking at people's profiles.
You don’t need to say what you don’t want. That comes across as negative. And even some of the things you think you ‘need’ aren’t always accurate. For instance, there are plenty of happy interfaith marriages. You don’t necessarily need a partner who shares your faith. (I’m living proof - and I know others who are too). You need a partner you find attractive, whose company you enjoy and who is a fantastic partner to you - open, honest, loyal, trustworthy, a good communicator and a true team mate.
I first came across this method a while ago, and I swear she's changed her recommended profile since then. The first version definitely did NOT contain a list of "do not wants," had more specific interests, was funnier, and in general was much less angry and more human. I wonder what on earth changed?
Not sure. At the time I discovered her and wrote this article, she was still backing her 'bitchy' dating profile.